In David Lawrence’s article, “Fleshly Ghosts and Ghostly Flesh: The Word and the Body in Beloved.” (Studies in American Fiction 19:2, Autumn 1991, pp. 189-202), he quotes Byron Bunch in Light in August “… that no matter how much a person might talk about how he’d like to escape from living folks…it’s the dead folks that do him the damage.” (New York: Vintage Books, 1987), p. 81. Discuss this comment in relation to Morrison’s novel.
You can read the Lawrence's full article here:
Fleshly Ghost and Ghostly Flesh: The Word and Body in Beloved
I believe that this quote from Bunch's book relates to Sethe's relationship between her and her ghost daughter. No matter who Sethe surrounds herself with or where she goes, she can never escape the ghost of her baby. The spirit of the baby follows her, even in her home. Her home fails to be a place of safety and security. It is a place that reminds Sethe and her family that a mother had to make the drastic decision to kill her own child.
ReplyDeleteIt is true that the living can inflict an immense amount of pain. (Sethe has been tormented by living plantation owners). However, the heavy pain they have inflicted does not seem to compare to the pain of her dead daughter.
Sethe is also burdened by others asking about her dead daughter. An example of this is when Denver asks her mother if she went to jail for murder. This is a reminder to her of the brutality of inflicting death on her own child.
In conclusion, I believe the quote relates to the novel in the way that the memories of the dead will always cause more pain than anyone living. Relationships with the living can always be repaired, but relationships with the deceased are left permanent at the time of their departure. In other words, Sethe can work on relationships with others around her. Yet, she will never be able to fix the painful relationship she had with her daughter since she is already dead.
I completely agree with Madison in terms of this quote relating to the fact that Sethe can ever only work on relationships with the living. While people are completely focused on what is going on around them, what really affects people is what isn’t around them. Losing Beloved was like losing a part of Sethe. As much as she loved her living children, Beloved’s missing presence changed Sethe’s whole life. While conflicts with the living can be resolved, conflicts with the dead will last forever. Beloved’s death creates a sense of permanent pain for Sethe that will never go away. The permanent pain Beloved's murder causes Sethe is a parallel to the permanent pain of slavery.
ReplyDeleteIn "Beloved" Morrison frequently alternates between telling stories from Sethe's past, to telling events in the present. With the introduction of Beloved, she serves as the link between Sethe, Paul D and Denver. Through Beloved, Morrison explains that no one can escape the past and I strongly believe that it is the message the Lawrence conveys in his article. The ghost of Beloved had driven off Sethe's two sons, yet Sethe and Denver continued to live at 124, but with the arrival of Paul D. it takes some time for Beloved to finally push him out of the house. Beloved's journey reveals how determined she is to destroy Sethe and everything that was once dear to her heart. Although her arrival to 124 initially brings more upset to their lives, it eventually leads to resolution for the family. Beloved embodies many of the character's secrets from the pasts and through this she shows the reader that she as a ghost has more power than anyone would have thought.
ReplyDeleteI believe this quote is referring to how Sethe is unable to escape from her past. She killed her daughter and she tried to move on from that was unable to because her daughter's ghost came back to haunt her just as fast as she tried to forget about her. So in the sense of Bunch's quote, Sethe wants to stayed escaped from the living folks, possibly her former slave owners, but it is her daughter's ghost who is doing the damage to her as she is constantly lingering behind her and acting as a constant reminder of what Sethe did.
ReplyDeleteThis is clearly in reference to Sethe killing Beloved. What she did to her daughter and has to live with for the rest of her life takes a serious toll on her. Throughout her entire life she is constantly reminded that she has killed her daughter and must live with the consequences that are brought to her, no matter what her reasoning is. Her living fear is of slavery which has driven her entire life is what she worries about, but the mental toll that killing Beloved has on her is what is tearing her apart.
ReplyDeleteThis excerpt relates to all parts of life. Whenever someone in your life dies, or goes away, they hold the most effect on your life. When people walk out you can never know what they would've said to you, what their opinions would be and what kind of person they would've evolved into. In Beloved, Sethe can continue to live her life and interact with the people around her,but it is the memory of Beloved that is the most harmful. The people condemn her because of what happened to Beloved. While the people in her town can punish Sethe, it is the memory of Beloved that causes the damage.
ReplyDeleteSethe was freed from slavery, but the reminder of slavery was always brought up by Beloved, as slavery was the reason for killing Beloved. The rememory of slavery and the murder of Beloved was never forgotten because of Beloved. Beloved’s ghost was a reminder to Sethe, but when Beloved came back, Sethe was face-to-face with her past, and it truly caused great damage to Sethe.
ReplyDeleteThis quote from David Lawrence's article refers to Sethe's conflict with her dead daughter throughout the novel. After killing her daughter, she is haunted by the ghost at 124 along with Beloved. Essentially, Beloved is the living representation of Sethe's dead daughter. Sethe tries to make up for her past actions by giving Beloved everything that she needs. By doing so, Beloved causes her to grow mentally and physically weak. Essentially, the daughter that she murdered haunts Sethe in the form of Beloved throughout the novel. Therefore, the dead is doing her great damage.
ReplyDeleteThe first thing that comes to mind when reading that quote about something dead doing the damage is Beloved and Sethe's relationship. Sethe has struggled to move on from the past after she had killed her own daughter, but when that daughter comes back to life, she puts all of her effort into rebuilding their relationship. However, Beloved takes all of Sethe's time and energy, once Sethe realizes who she is. Beloved basically drives Sethe to the point of death as she exhausts her both mentally and physically. Throughout the whole novel, Beloved, a character who is basically dead does the most damage to Sethe.
ReplyDeleteI can agree that this quote refers to Sethe and her struggling relationship with her dead daughter, Beloved. One piece that speaks to me was later in the book when Sethe was describing how she would have loved to leave the world after killing her daughter, but had to stay to raise and provide for her remaining children. To me this represents how Sethe would have “loved to escape from the living folks”. She did not want to face her reprocutions. However, the real trouble she faces is Beloveds rememory coming back and over taking her life and her existence. Therefore “It’s the dead folks that do the damage” is a perfect representations of Sethe’s struggles to fight the memory of Beloved and past of slavery overtaking her life.
ReplyDeleteThis quote from the book Light In August by Byron Bunch is very relevant to the story Beloved. Sethe, specifically, has been torn apart and is suffering the consequences of her actions. The pain she endured when she was a slave does not even compare to this. Her dead daughter haunts her every second of every day, leaving Sethe no way to escape. At least when Sethe escaped Sweet Home she got away from all the people who had hurt her. As bad as her memories must've been from being a slave, her memories of killing beloved are far worse. I don't think she regrets her actions, because she meant well; but at times she feels trapped in the past, not ready or willing to move on.
ReplyDeleteThis quote from Byron Bunch is obviously a reference to the murder of Beloved. Much of her pain stems from this and it will haunt her everyday. This damage from the dead quite literally haunts her and comes in the form of Beloved. Beloved drives all of her loved ones away from her. Her two sons ran away, Denver is scared of her, Paul D is chased away, and Baby Suggs loses her famous spirit. Beloved almost almost kills Sethe herself. Sethe becomes ill and sickly thin because of Beloved's behavior and attempt at revenge. Beloved, while dead, does the most damage to Sethe.
ReplyDelete“… that no matter how much a person might talk about how he’d like to escape from living folks…it’s the dead folks that do him the damage.” Sethe is afraid of slavery, and afraid of being caught when she escapes Sweet Home, she's afraid of the people on Sweet Home. Yes they did harm Sethe, but Sethe should really be afraid of Beloved, because she's the one who's really hurting her. Beloved ruins her life, driving all of Sethe's loved ones away, and sucks the life out of Sethe. Beloved is the dead doing the damage.
ReplyDeleteI don’t necessarily agree with Bunch’s statement because, while Beloved when she is dead does damage to Sethe by haunting her, the foundation for damage was already laid by the living white people while Sethe was a slave. Sethe was fearful of the living which is why she wanted to escape Sweet Home and her way of life. Because we established that Beloved in a way represents the past and how their experiences as slaves continue to haunt Sethe, I think the “dead folks” in this sense is the memories of slavery in general (which Beloved embodies). Slavery is “dead” in the sense that they are no longer slaves, however it still haunts them and does damage in their lives as free people.
ReplyDeleteThe quote relates to Morrison’s novel because it represents the relationship between Sethe and Beloved. Though Sethe is living, Beloved comes back and does some damage. Sethe tries to escape the living, meaning the slaves and her slave owner. The dead, meaning Beloved, come back and make it just as hard for her. She lives with the burden of killing her daughter. Now that her daughter has taken a “human form”, she lives to bring revenge onto Sethe. She drains Sethe of everything she has and basically tries to become her. Sethe is almost nothing, until the community comes to try to exorcise Beloved. Once Beloved is gone, Sethe can go back to living a somewhat normal life.
ReplyDeleteThis quote has a direct relationship to Sethe’s action of murdering her daughter. Her actions are stuck with her until her death, and killing Beloved strains Sethe both physically and emotionally. She pays the cost, living a life of constant loss, abandonment, and probably regret. She could have raised a beautiful daughter, but in an act of intended kindness, kills her to provide protection. Little did she know the impact it would leave down the road. She feared that her children would be sucked into a life of slavery like she was, and this potential throws her into a state of regret after killing her daughter. This action is clearly still affecting the way she behaves.
ReplyDeleteI believe that this quote refers to Sethe failing to be able to run from her past. While she escaped from Sweet Home and is no longer a slave, she can't forget the events that happened because the ghost of Beloved serves as a constant reminder to her. Sethe killed Beloved to prevent her from experiencing the horrors of slavery, and it could be argued that the psychological damage that slavery had on Sethe is what caused her to murder her own child. So, the connection of Beloved and slavery is a constant reminder to Sethe and it is why she is never able to escape her past.
ReplyDeleteI agree that this quote can be related to Sethe and her relationship with Beloved. When Sethe said that she would have loved to leave the world after killing her daughter Sethe but couldn't leave her children, I connected this to the quote “loved to escape from the living folks”. She didn't want to face the consequences and escape her worries . However, the true problem is the memory of Beloved as the thought comes back to Sethe. This relates to the quote “It’s the dead folks that do the damage” sicne even thought Beloved is dead she still haunts 124 and Sethe.
ReplyDeleteI agree what others are saying in that the quote represents Sethe and Beloved relationship. When Beloved comes back she does damage towards Sethe, however there was already damage. Sethe’s past and her killing Beloved is what caused her hurting. Beloved wouldn't have to come back if she was never killed. Beloved is just adding to Sethe’s damage.
ReplyDeleteSethe was granted freedom, but was never free mentally and traumatically. Sethe is forever a slave to Beloved who she had murdered and haunts the house reminding Sethe of the act. I agree with Eliza where Beloved was only out to harm, not help.
ReplyDeleteI feel that this quote can directly connect to the killing of Beloved. Since Beloved comes back as a ghost and then a girl, she is constant reminder to Sethe of her past. This action is what directly relates to almost everything happening in her life including the fear that is instilled in her children. “The dead” as said in the quote is what directly is haunting Sethe and is the one memory that is a constant reminder of her past. The memories of slavery always exist in her mind but she is away from it now in 124. The death of Beloved still surrounds her and when the girl comes continues to haunt and seek revenge on her.
ReplyDeleteThis comment can be directly related to Morrison’s novel. When Sethe saw schoolteacher approaching, she brought her children into the shed to take their lives and her own life so they would be free. She was trying to escape the horrors she was subjected to by living folks. However, the living folk were not the most harmful; the most damage was done to her by Beloved’s haunting. Beloved did not allow Sethe to move on no matter how many times Sethe tried to explain herself or apologize. Beloved drained Sethe until she was close to death. Another way of explaining this is that living through slavery is not as harmful as the memories it leaves with people. The memories will haunt people, close them off, and in the end, slowly drive them to insanity.
ReplyDeleteIn relation to the book, this quote makes perfect sense. Sethe encounters many people in her life that affect and shape her into the person that she is at 124. These are the living, the ones she says she can escape, but her past, the dead, is always with her. She cannot escape what she did to her child and it won’t leave her behind. The regret she has towards Beloved for doing this shapes all the decisions that she makes. This past is always haunting her and she can never forget it. It hangs over her throughout the entire novel and plays into the fact that you can never forget your past.
ReplyDeleteThis quote can be tied to Sethe’s relationship with Beloved. After killing her daughter, Sethe was plagued by her memories of Beloved physically and mentally. “It’s the dead folks that do him the damage” represents Beloved's hold on Sethe. After she was murdered, Beloved aimed to seek revenge on her mother even after she had died. The painful “rememory” of Beloved is what haunts Sethe as she is one of the “living folks.” Although Sethe is living, she is not alive due to the constant torment when reminded of the past.
ReplyDeleteAlthough Sethe was emotionally and physically damaged and scarred from her time as a slave, she was the most scarred by the ghost/spirit of Beloved. Although Sethe had her rememories, she was able to mostly leave her past behind, with the exception of Beloved's death. This caused Sethe to live with the guilt all her life and then be tortured by Beloved when she thought she was going to be freed by her, and Beloved ends up doing more damage to Sethe than any of the living people in the novel, like schoolteacher.
ReplyDeleteBunch’s quote is very powerful and intriguing to me. Of all the characters, I believe this quote is referencing the relationship between Sethe and her baby girl Beloved that she murdered. The rememory of Beloved is what haunts Sethe and unfortunately, there is no way she can repair this relationship. Sethe’s fear of slavery is what drives her every move, and it even drives her to kill her daughter to prevent her from an enslaved life. The worst damage was caused by the haunting of Beloved. Therefore, “it’s the dead folks that do the damage” is an accurate statement for the pain Sethe is going through for the death of her irreplaceable daughter, and having her murder and slavery take a tremendous toll on Sethe for the remainder of her life.
ReplyDeleteThis quote makes a lot of sense in the context of this novel. Out of all the damage that happens to Sethe in the course of her life, the biggest problem has to do with Beloved. Both the pain of slavery and the ghost of Beloved haunt Sethe the most. Although it was schoolteacher and others that actually harmed her, Beloved is the reason it is so unforgettable to Sethe. She tortures her with memories of slavery which is the whole reason she wanted to kill Beloved in the first place. Beloved takes the biggest toll on Sethe, changing who she is throughout the course of the book.
ReplyDeleteThis quote can be directly applied to Beloved to describe Sethe’s escape from Sweet Home and her relationship with Beloved. Sweet Home and the slave owners there can represent the “living folks” mentioned in Bunch’s quote. While she was living there, Sethe went through some of the worst experiences of her life, things that no person should ever have to go through. She desperately wanted to escape from all of the torture from the “living folks” and succeeded. However, in the end it really is the “dead folks” that do damage to Sethe. Beloved, her dead daughter, comes back to haunt her as a ghost. Sethe is both physically and mentally strained almost to the point of death from dealing with Beloved. Even though she had escaped Sweet Home, her memories of that past along with the memory of killing Beloved built up so much grief within Sethe that the past events ended up hurting her more then than when they actually happened.
ReplyDeleteThe dead cause more damage because they are no longer with us, they are just a memory. Grief comes with death and Sethe experienced a life long time of grief due to the loss of her daughter, as well as her own identity. Sethe was scarred by slavery, I believe along the way her soul died. Living folks that Sethe lost included Paul D. and the community and their acceptance. The grief of slavery brought misery upon Sethe that was difficult to repair. I think this happened the opposite of what Sethe expected but the death of Beloved is an example of what is said in this quote. Beloved's death occurred because Sethe decided upon herself that death was better than life in the living conditions she and her children were faced with. But, in the long run, the past haunted Sethe till her last day alive, so the dead (Beloved) did more damage rather than the Beloved that could've been alive.
ReplyDeleteLawrence’s comment relates to “Beloved” because the majority of Sethe’s pain and haunting stems from the deceased- her daughter. It is unfair to dismiss the trauma that living beings inflicted upon Sethe, especially schoolteacher and her slave owners who forced themselves on her and beat her. These horrific experiences, caused by the living, were not nearly as daunting as the troubles caused by Beloved’s ghost and rememory. Beloved’s presence is not only a reminder about the horrors Sethe endured, but she is also a constant reminder about the biggest regret of her life. Beloved represents the motive behind Sethe’s actions (avoid the suffering that comes with being a slave) and the choice Sethe makes that affects her life forever. The loss of Beloved changes Sethe and damages the relationship that exists between her and her children. While slavery did impact Sethe’s sanity, the most lasting and profound effects on Sethe’s life originate from the murder she committed. The living come and go, but the deceased live in our memories forever.
ReplyDeleteI think this quote can be related to Sethe and Beloved. Sethe has choosen to live completely isolated from society. They stay in 124 and they never socialize with anyone that lives in town. I think that Sethe thinks by doing this she will escape the people that think what she did was wrong and judge her. Sethe thinks that this is how she avoids her memories about Beloved. But it’s not. It’s not the living people that will cause her painful rememory, it’s the dead (Beloved). The memories she has about Beloved are what makes her life unbearable, and she can’t escape them. By refusing to enter society she only intensifies the ability Beloved has on causing her to feel so guilty and tortured by her memories. Much like her memories, it’s the dead that have the ability to haunt, not the living.
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